CONDOMINIUM WORKING GROUP

 

York Room, Markham Civic Centre

November 13, 2008

 

MINUTES

 

 

Committee

 

Councillor D. Horchik

Regional Councillor G. Landon

Mayor F. Scarpitti (Ex Officio)

Councillor J. Virgilio

 

R. Chan, Non-Condo Owner

B. Gordon, Non-Condo Owner

E. Nyitrai, Non-MATCO Condo

      Association Member

E. Schollen, MATCO Member

B. Taylor, MATCO Member

 

Staff

 

A. Taylor, Commissioner of Corporate Services

B. Cribbett, Treasurer

P. Wealleans, Director, Revenues

S. Manson, Manager, Tax and Assessment Policy

J. Kee, Committee Clerk

 

The first meeting of the Condominium Working Group convened at the hour of 3:00 p.m. with Regional Councillor G. Landon in the Chair.

 

 

1.         WELCOME AND INTRODUCTIONS

 

The Chair welcomed all members to the meeting and everyone introduced themselves, and provided some personal information.

 

Members were advised that the purpose of this meeting is to review all background material, including staff reports and Council Extracts; the MATCO report; and any other relevant information.  A further meeting will be held in January of 2009.

 

 

2.         CONDOMINIUM WORKING GROUP MEMBERSHIP

 

Mr. Paul Wealleans, Director, Revenues, advised that members were appointed to the Condominium Working Group by Council on June 24, 2008, as follows:

 

  • Regional Councillor G. Landon
  • Councillor J. Virgilio
  • Councillor D. Horchik
  • Mayor F. Scarpitti, Ex-Officio

 

·        Mr. Ray Chan, Non-Condo Owner

·        Mr. Brian Gordon, Non-Condo Owner

·        Mr. Ernie Nyitrai, Non-MATCO Condo Association Member

·        Mr. Ed Schollen, MATCO Member

·        Mr. Bert Taylor, MATCO Member

 

 

 

3.         TERMS OF REFERENCE

 

The Director, Revenues advised that the Terms of Reference for the Condominium Working Group was adopted by Council at its meeting held on October 9, 2007, and advised that there are approximately ten thousand (10,000) condominium units within the Town of Markham, and they are almost evenly split between town homes and hi-rise buildings.

 

The Chair directed that each of the Terms be reviewed and discussed, as follows.

 

Terms of Reference for Condominium Working Group

 

Goal:  To identify issues/options with respect to services received and taxes paid by condominiums that the Town of Markham could support and advocate for at the Provincial level.  – CONFIRMED BY WORKING GROUP

 

1.     Identify and clarify the extent of the services that are not provided by the Town on townhome condominium properties, including: street lighting, potable water, water system maintenance, sewer maintenance, road maintenance, snow removal, etc. – CONFIRMED BY WORKING GROUP

 

2.       Identification of all condominiums in the Town to include both townhome and high-rise for maximum potential impact. – CONFIRMED BY WORKING GROUP

 

3.       Identification of physical limitations to providing services to townhome

all condominiums. – AMENDED BY WORKING GROUP

 

4.       Determination as to whether or not there should be qualifying criteria for condominium inclusion or should all condominiums be included. – CONFIRMED BY WORKING GROUP

 

5.       Review of fairness issue to other private property owners not receiving identified services on their properties, such as commercial malls, etc. – CONFIRMED BY WORKING GROUP

 

 

 

 

 

6.       Estimate of cost impacts. – CONFIRMED BY WORKING GROUP

 

7.       Financial impact on Town’s tax rate – CONFIRMED BY WORKING GROUP

 

8.       Review of MATCO’s 3 proposed options, including any legislative impacts:

a) Rebates

b) Town to provide services

c) New property class for condominiums in taxation system.

- CONFIRMED BY WORKING GROUP

 

9.       Summary and Recommendations  

a) Action should be championed  Develop a strategy at political level

b) Action should be directed  Develop a strategy at provincial level

c) Consider other groups that should be asked to be involved at the Provincial level, such as: AMO (Association of Municipalities of Ontario), AMCTO; AMTCO; CARP (Advocacy Group for Canadians Over 50); and BILD (Building Industry and Land Development Association).

- AMENDED BY WORKING GROUP

 

10.     Task Group membership:(As per Council Extract of October 9, 2007)

·        3 Councillors

·        2 MATCO Members

·        1 Non-MATCO Condominium Association Member

·        2 Non-Condominium Homeowners

·        2 Finance Department Staff, Town of Markham

- CONFIRMED BY WORKING GROUP

 

During the discussion of the Terms of Reference, the following issues were raised:

 

  • there is a need for a detailed analysis
  • there are differences in services provided, depending on the type of condominium
  • Town-owned roads vs condominium-owned roads
  • note recent amendments to the Condominium Act
  • suggestion that, legally, this entire issue is not a municipal issue; condo owners have certain rights and responsibilities
  • commercial malls are in a different tax category and are taxed at a higher rate than residential; Town does not provide services to them
  • business/commercial/industrial property owners (i.e. malls) should also be included in these discussions
  • staff requested to provide details regarding estimates of cost impacts
  • request MPAC/Province to identify condominiums as an assessable entity through the Assessment Act; have a distinct tax rate
  • concern that a special assessment class would not be wanted by other municipalities

 

 

  • there are different types of condominiums; freehold and leasehold; i.e. YRCC and YRSCC

 

In response to a query regarding the original provision of garbage services, Mr. Schollen advised that in the late 1990’s, Council grandfathered a waste rebate for waste collection and disposal service for some condominium corporations. 

 

Staff also advised that in 2002, Council adopted a policy to provide garbage collection where possible to condominium developments providing the development met minimum road width requirements.  Staff was requested to provide the details of which condominiums receive this service, including numbers and locations.

 

In addition, staff advised that they will try to identify the condos by group or category.

 

 

 

4.         STAFF PRESENTATION TO CONDO WORKING GROUP

 

The Chair noted that it was important for new members of the Working Group to be updated on all aspects of the issue, and requested the Director, Revenues to deliver a formal presentation.  The following information was presented:

  • the condo owners position on the issue; and the Town’s position
  • categories of condominiums
  • brief history of the issue
  • establishment and composition of the Working Group
  • Terms of Reference
  • services for discussion
  • status of MATCO
  • MATCO position
  • property taxation in Ontario
  • condominiums as private property developments
  • possible impacts
  • action next steps

 

 

 

5.         BACKGROUND: REPORT TO GENERAL COMMITTEE

            ON MAY 28, 2007

 

Members had before them for information the Council Extract and staff report, with attachments, dated May 28, 2007, which had been prepared in response to a presentation by representatives of MATCO in April of 2007.

 

 

 

 

 

6.         MATCO REPORT: BACKGROUND INFORMATION 

 

Mr. Ed Schollen and Mr. Bert Taylor, of MATCO presented a document providing a brief synopsis and background information relating to the position that condominium owners are not treated fairly from a tax viewpoint.

 

The document addressed the following areas:

  • background information
  • progress report
  • services not provided
  • identification of the target group
  • physical limitations
  • qualifying criteria
  • fairness to all taxpayers
  • cost impact
  • methods of addressing the situation
  • conclusion

 

Mr. Schollen provided staff with a copy of a report detailing a financial analysis carried out by MATCO reflecting the costs currently being incurred by MATCO members, and potential costings to condo owners and the average Markham taxpayer if condo owners were to receive a reduction from their taxes.  Staff was requested to provide details relating to the average assessment of residential condominiums.

 

There was some discussion regarding what the costs entailed, and Mr. Taylor explained that townhome condominium taxpayers must pay additionally, either to the Town or to private contractors, costs for the following services: street lighting; sewer and water service and maintenance; road maintenance and repair; and snow clearing and removal.  He noted that MATCO is objecting to being taxed as though the Town was providing these services.

 

Financial information was provided to staff some years ago from the hi-rise condominium corporations that prepared similar calculations, however Mr. Ernie Nyitrai, Non-MATCO Condo Association Member, advised that he could make this information available for staff.

 

Committee raised and discussed the following matters:

 

  • suggestion that Town is not doing anything wrong; it is beyond Town’s control
  • suggestion that this is a legal Provincial issue relating to the Condominium Act
  • suggestion that perhaps MATCO is being unfair and not providing a balanced viewpoint
  • condo ownership comes with certain realities
  • all issues raised should be carefully considered by the Working Group

 

 

 

The Chair advised that the role of this Working Group is to thoroughly review, discuss and debate the issues, and if the Working Group concludes that the current situation is not fair, a recommendation would be made to Council that the Province of Ontario be requested to change existing legislation.

 

Mayor F. Scarpitti noted that the Town does not have the authority to change some things, however, if the Working Group is able to come to a well thought-out conclusion, the Town may be able to influence the Province.

 

The matter of obtaining costs from PowerStream for street lighting was raised, and members were advised that such figures might be difficult to obtain for the condominiums.

 

 

 

7.         CONDOMINIUM STOCK IN MARKHAM

 

The Director, Revenues presented a summary of the condominium inventory within the Town of Markham, by Ward.  Town records indicate that there are one hundred (100) condominium corporations, and the number of units are separated as follows:

 

Hi-Rise Condominiums 5,069

TownHome Condominiums       4,574

Total Property Count:               9,643

 

The Director advised that staff will be able to attach CVA’s (Current Value Assessment) to the properties in future.

 

 

 

8.         NEXT STEPS

 

The Chair advised that the next meeting will be held in January and the agenda will include:

 

1) Staff to provide information on how grants are calculated for the garbage collection

2) Types and number of condominiums

3) CVA’s for various condo units

4) Staff to undertake initial analysis with respect to financial report on cost of services

5) Staff to undertake initial analysis with respect to information on how the non-condominium owners will be impacted in the future; i.e. standards for road repair and quality of service; implications of any kind of change

6) Terms of Reference, as amended this date, will be presented at the next Working Group meeting

 

 

 

 

Mr. Schollen and Mr. Taylor asked if the Working Group would allow them to appoint alternate members to attend future meetings, as observers, if they were unable to attend, and members of the Working Group agreed and requested Mr. Schollen and Mr. Taylor to advise the Committee Clerk of the names and contact information of the alternate members.

 

The Chair thanked the members for attending the meeting of the Condominium Working Group this date, and advised that the Committee Clerk will contact all members regarding the date of the next meeting, which is expected to be held in January of 2009.

 

 

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

The meeting adjourned at 4:45 p.m.